“Supporting the Palestinian people is the right thing, indeed the only thing a decent human being can, and must do in the circumstances.”
Indeed!
I remember a song from back in the day, never more appropriate than now, “Which side are you on?” Unfortunately, many of the people I sang that with were on the right side of the Vietnam war, and in the wrong side of this issue. I had demonstrators say things to me about “Arabs” that sounded as racist as what the warmonger’s were saying about the Vietnamese.
I believe there are fewer people now who claim to be for peace, but still make an exception for Palestine. We can hope.
That is so, you are spot on, that behind "support for Israel" is plain unhinged racism. Zionism is celebrated racism. Racism that won after the WWII. People weee duped because they thought, Jews cannot be racist and fascist.
Yes, PEP (progressive except on Palestine is a huge problem) and a very important thing to understand. It goes right to the heart of what Israel is and how it brainwashes people.
If people are truly empathetic and compassion then it is unconditional. PEPs are selective. They would support anyone except Palestinians. Their loyalty to the tribe and fear of antisemitism take priority above all else including their human values.
Israel has been very successful in its brainwashing efforts. It taught us that it is good, even desirable to be kind and helpful to others, *provided it does not clash with the interests of the state of Israel*. If the state is threatened all values, principles, activism has to take a back seat. Settler-colonial societies are driven by paranoia and fear so they always feel under threat. They are never psychologically secure and the fear and paranoia are forever close to the surface. It was because of that mindset that I left Israel when I did. I was still very ignorant about the real history of the country I was born in, and all I knew about the history of Zionism was from the indoctrination I received in Israel.
It would have been nice if the public stopped differentiating between "Israel" and the larger Anglo-American Empire. The truth is that there is a 4-Headed International mafia (Finance, Technology, Politics and Academia) working together as ONE. Yes, "Israel" is doing (for now) the physical killing but it has always been just the 'mad dog' of a cold and calculated imperial business. I suspect the Turkish interviewer was not entirely happy to go there, as he avoided your remarks on the total support from western powers (as they usually avoid it). "Israel" is not a standalone lunatic regime but ONE industrial int'l mafia. I don't think “America is backing Israel” - "America" IS "Israel". The fact they have two different names is not important, it is the same criminal group. Saying this is in no way trying to diminish the crimes done by "Israel" or to remove responsibility from "Israel". Somehow, I don't see the "West" ever denouncing Israel for what it really is, and the reason is that it can't denounce itself... As Harold Pinter was saying: "The crimes of the west never happened. Even while they were happening the didn't happen"... Starmer, Biden, Blair (and all the rest) hands are as red as the criminals from "Israel". They should ALL be sitting in the Hague because they are running the same operation/project together. Aren't they?
I agree with you completely!! The world is ruled by exactly the same principles used by traditional mafia and Israel is indeed the ‘mad dog’. See my response to Lena on this thread. We are all in serious trouble.
Yes, I see. It is so obvious. And so ridiculous... Starmer/ Biden are "working hard to ask Israel for a ceasefire”…
I sometimes hear "thought for the day" (BBC R4) and there is often a 'holy' person appearing in a sombre demeanour and wishing peace for all people in "troubled" areas of the globe, but they always forget about the origin for these "troubles" which is much closer to home. One thing you have to hand it to our imperialists - they have a way with words. Here is a link you can see their names - I don't recommend listening though.
Thanks for saying you don’t recommend. I just cannot stomach the BBC at all. It is nauseating, all that misinformation and misleading perspectives, glaring omissions, and continuing to treat Israel like some legitimate state whose opinion actually matters. Can’t stand it. Thank you for your solidarity.
I sometimes listen (mainly in the car) just to know the headlines. I know most Israelis hate the BBC, they simply don't grasp the PR sophistication of promoting by the way of offering some criticism. Anyway is there any other English radio station you can listen to? I doubt it.
Absolutely correct. I have the feeling that the Palestinian people are the “canary in the coal mine”, and if we let ‘The West’ get away with this genocide, all bets are off and we’re well and truly f*cked.
Diana, in my field it is very clear how to act in situations where there is abuse and imbalance of power. For some reason all our rules and logic go out the window when it comes to international relations. It is nuts.
Abigail, thank you for putting yourself through that TRT interview. In Japan we would say お疲れさまです to acknowledge your effort and the time and energy you put into it. An expression of empathy, if you will. I agree with everything you said, and I think it is a damning indictment of our societies that there is almost zero chance that you would be allowed to answer such questions uninterrupted on mainstream media in western countries.
In my home country of New Zealand, the vile right wing government is almost as bad as the vile Labor (!) government you have in Australia, with consent for their criminal actions supporting Israel manufactured 24/7 by the genocide-complicit media. The political and media classes are merely tools of the oligarchs who wield the actual power. In Japan where I live, it’s pretty much the same story. Utterly dispiriting since maybe more than two-thirds of the population are completely conned into believing the false and evil narrative. Even the ones who know they’re being lied to, most of them just tune out and carry on because they have been programmed to believe that they are completely powerless in the face of these massive crimes. I suppose that the only thing we can do is spread the word and participate in BDS. And support real journalists who tell the truth.
Thank you so much and I agree with your observations and analysis. I am so sad about NZ, but then again I am said about humanity in general. We are on a slipper slope, and if climate change doesn’t catch up with us, we will finish ourselves off.
I am no longer in Australia. I have now lived in Scotland for nearly 15 years, but I am an Australian citizen. It indeed vile what is going on there, with the Albanese’s Government support for Israel. Of course, we have the same problem with Keir Starmer here too. Right or Left in politics have lost their meaning. The way I think about it, humanity is largely still fear-driven and has not come out of the stone age yet. It is split between two camps. One includes those who want to live and grow to our human potential, and who recognise the that all human beings are interconnected and dependent on our natural environment. The second includes those who feel fear all the time, and believe in the entitlement of some over others, and in ‘survival of the meanest/greediest/most ruthless, never mind anyone else.
As Edward O. Wilson — the last evolutionary biologist — said: “Modern humanity is distinguished by Palaeolithic emotions, Medieval institutions … and god-like technology. We’re a mixed up, and in many ways archaic species in transition. We are a chimera of evolution.” (https://bigthink.com/hard-science/eo-wilson-what-makes-us-human-paleolithic-emotions-medieval-institutions-god-like-technology/) We are a right mess, and the societies we have created, the fact that we use our ingenuity and technology to kill and destroy tells us everything we need to know about ourselves. Millions of species lived and disappeared. Maybe we will become such a species. It is a pity, because we have the potential to transcend the mess we are and develop into something amazing. But we are still driven by primal instincts, are still giving power to all the wrong people, and cannot seem to break old hard-wired patterns. Thank you Stephen, and for the lovely phrase in Japanese, which sadly I cannot read. Nice to hear from someone in Japan and thank you for reading my writings. 🙏
Thank you for your reply. What I wrote in Japanese can be transliterated as “otsukaresama desu”. But you can also play around with it by copying and pasting the Japanese text into a translation tool of your choice.
I had a look and it means an expression of appreciation for someone’s effort. Seems similar to saying ‘good job’ to someone who did something you appreciate. I can see that it can be used in business/work context. Thank you. That is very kind.
I am a Japanese-to-English translator by trade, with a very modest sideline in accommodation. I live in a farming and tourism area in the mountains, about two hours from Tokyo.
Thank you, Avigail, the Zionist denial that it is settler-colonialism, is incredibly dishonest. Zionists have been defining Zionism as "Jewish colonial project in Palestine" since day one and they have always called Jewish settlements "colonies" and "settlements", and the settlers "settlers". In Israel, there are countless streets called in Hebrew "colonial" and the like. Weizmann, Ben Gurion and Jabotinsky have been propagandizing the British and Mussolini to support "Jewish colonization". Before Nuremberg Trials, none of the Zionist leaders has ever objected to define Zionism as settler-colonial. They were proud to wage colonialism in the same style and even better than non-Jews.
Yet today they deny it. Even Finkelstein says that we should not call Zionism "colonialism".
Zionism was based on lies about Jews, about Palestine, about history, about Bible and Torah.
Zionists simply wanted a piece of land for themselves, to do whatever they want on it and be able to expand this piece of land indefinitely. Nothing to do with Jews' well-being, or the Bible, or history - just greed for domination, plain and simple.
Theodor Herzl: “ Our first object is, as I said before, supremacy, assured to us by international law, over a portion of the globe sufficiently large to satisfy our just requirements.” - The Jewish State
The international law, in times of his writing The Jewish State, was the law of conquest of "lesser peoples" and race science.
I’m not actually sure they’re really denying anymore. They just think that settler-colonialism and colonialism are perfectly OK. Israel and its soceity are so consumed with their sense of entitlement, that it is completely normal to them. They cannot see beyond it. If you have a sense of entittlement, then empathy to others is a luxury you cannot afford. Israel exists in a world where imperialism is still the norm, and within a global economic system based on the ‘survival of the meanest’. Israel thinks the world has nothing to complain against it, and if it does it calls the world’s bluff. Behind closed doors I am sure Israel’s leaders and reps are telling their American and UK friends that Israel is just carryign out in the open the same thing they did elsewhere in the world (e.g. Iraq), and also in stealth through economic manipulation. Israelis know perfectly well what they are doing. They just don’t believe it is fundamentally wrong. In a ‘dog eat dog’ world they just believe they are doing what they need to do to ‘survive’ and advance their own interests. It is a lot more cynical than people imagine.
Yes, they say that it is antisemitic to call it colonialism because this term makes them outsider newcomers, whereas they are "native to this land" and Palestinians are "just Arabs to annexed this territory".
Yes, the denial of the colonialist nature of Zionism became essential after the WWII. Zionists say that it is not colonialism but Jewish national home since 2000 years ago.
Chomsky... And by the way who cares "helpful" or not, if that's what it is? Is it "helpful" to call imperialism "imperialism"? Or to call Zionism "Zionism"?
Chomsky has always been a problem for me. I have no issues with his scholarship and his ideas about how regimes and media can generate conformity to certain views. But he has always been against the BDS, which always made me suspect that deep underneath he has been harbouring tribal loyalties. He is more like a ‘liberal Zionist’ than the real deal. And you are right. Settler-colonialism is what it is and it must be named as such. I don’t have much trust in Chomsky.
Dear Avigail, Chomsky's ideas about media, propaganda and generating conformity are 100% plagiarism from Parenti. Sadly. Chomsl\ky has always been a totalitarian. See his debate with Foucault 1971.
I’m not suggesting at all that it’s not settler colonialism. I don’t doubt Professor Finkelstein’s 40 year commitment to the Palestinian cause and his visceral hatred of Israel, so I was curious as to why he objected to the phrase.
1) I was not addressing you, but this liberal Zionist position about "helpful". Who cares if it helpful. It is beside the point what Finkelstein says there. 2) I think there is a lot of confusion regarding liberal Zionism and Palestine. Opposition to Israel does not mean opposition to Zionism. Not at all. We must distinguish between opposition to Israel and anti-Zionism (as in anti-fascism). Liberal Zionists such as Chomsky and his disciples believe in the benign and beneficial nature of Zionism as an ideology. They however criticize Israel for giving Zionism a bad name. That's all what it is. The reason why Finkelstein abhors the use of the term "settler-colonialism" is because this term exposes Zionism as a predatory, colonial ideology. This is what he disagrees with.
"Finkelstein declared his opposition to BDS—and did so in the same inflammatory language he had been using for decades to describe Israel and its supporters. “I loathe the disingenuousness—they don’t want Israel [to exist],” he said. “It’s a cult.” He had spent his time in a self-deceptive Maoist cult, he said; he wouldn’t do it again. He accused BDS activists of “inflating the numbers” of Palestinian refugees and “want[ing] to create terror in the hearts of every Israeli” rather than resolve the conflict. “I’m not going to tolerate what I think is silliness, childishness, and a lot of left-wing posturing,” he said." -- https://newrepublic.com/article/122257/unpopular-man-norman-finkelstein-comes-out-against-bds-movement
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Last year, speaking at a rally at Columbia, he again tried to school the protesters to refrain from calls to dismantle Israel and establish Palestine instead.
I have to remind you, Paul, that an ideological position is defined not by what one is AGAINST, but by what one is FOR. It is not enough to criticize Israel and be against it, as Finkelstein does. It is necessary to envision its disappearance. Completely. Gone from the face of the Earth. Which Finkelstein does NOT. You asked why Finkelstein opposes calling Zionism "settler-colonialism in Palestine". I answered you why.
I bigly appreciate the fact that you didn't fall for the bait/opening offered by the interviewer (In good faith, i believe) early on, who wanted you to comment on the situation "as a Jew". You rightly and morally deflected that to persistently say "as a human being....".
I find it perplexing that so many others of jewish heritage tend to preface their condemnation with "as a jew". Knowing what I know now - after 11 months of deeply troubling Talmudic study and what it says of non-jews, I just cannot fathom how that kind of preambling to a comment adds strength to one's position.
Thanks for your comment and for noticing… You are the first person to comment on this. I think people preface what they say with ‘as a Jew’, because they think it might strengthen their position. When I said there is nothing ‘Jewish’ in me, I meant it. I was brought up in a secular family in the Zionist cult of Israel that calls itself Jewish, because it declared a few festivals from Jewish religion as national festivals, and it allows Jewish religious law to administer marriages, divorces, and burials.
I don’t like Jewish religion, and I never have. I took a few classes in Jewish religion at university, because I wanted to understand better what it was about it that I didn’t like. I got my answer. It is a legalistic and bleak, cult-like religion, it has blood phobia and it is profoundly misogynistic. As a woman how could I possibly follow a religion that treats women the way orthodox Judaism does? I do not believe that Jewish religion makes much of a contribution to humanity as a whole, in my opinion anyway.
The important point for me is to make it clear that Israel is a setter-colonial state, and what title it wants to give itself changes nothing. Talking about Jewishness backfires, because it deflects from the real issue, which is that crazy and entitled Zionist goal to remove the non-Jewish indigenous people, and replace them with those Israel defines as Jews. As long as people continue to talk about ethnicity, or religion when they discuss Israel-Palestine, they are helping Israel distract, deflect, and evade.
Israel loves to throw false accusations of antisemitism at its critics. When it does that, it behaves like all perpetrators who pretend to be the victim. There is actually nothing original or special about Israel. Everything Israel is doing has been done before.
I told the truth at the start of the interview, but I also do not think that it should matter if someone is a Jew to criticise Israel, or that they deserve a medal because of this. No group is more special than any other group and no group of humans on the planet is more entitled to live and survive than anyone else.
No group should be persecuted on any grounds whatsoever. Jews were persecuted because of the same petty-minded racism and brutality that has always caused the persecution of anyone who is and was a victim of prejudice and mob mentality.
If you study the Talmud, you are probably seeing how preoccupied Jewish religion is with its own inner workings, how insular it is, and how obsessed it is with its perception of racial purity and not mixing with ‘others’. Before the Talmud was written down, Judaism was a missionary religion that converted others. But when Jewish religion becomes persecuted, you begin to see the insular mindset and the desire to protect the group dominating more and more. (I recommend you read Shlomo Sand’s The Invention of the Jewish People, if you haven’t already). I am sure you see the deep existential fear at the core of the religion, the strong legalistic trend, the idea that following the laws is what brings a man closer to God, and the preoccupation with interpreting God’s intentions so people follow the laws ‘correctly’. How or when a religion becomes a race, is an interesting question someone should look into.
None of this, of course, ever justified persecution of Jews, and none of this justifies Israel’s genocidal settler-colonialism, and sense of entitlement. I believe our messed up human psychology predates our religions. Religion reflects both sides of our nature, our potential to be grounded, compassionate, and inclusive, and our fear-based, tribal, survivalist savagery. Every religion includes both elements. People’s psychology would determine how they would interpret their religion, and what they are prepared to do in its name. Some people are propelled by their religion to inclusivity and human values, and some focus on tribalism and exclusivity.
Israel has little to do with anything other than an incredibly primitive, deadly, and ultimately self-defeating psychology. And sadly, Israel is a microcosm of the world we live in. It would have been so easy to stop Israel’s murderous insanity, but those with the power collude with it. They demonstrate that the power in the world is in the hands of people who have the exact same psychology that drives Israel, and represent the most primitive sides of humanity. It is really sad given the potential we also have. Thanks again for commenting.
Abigail, a very thoughtful follow-up. I hope others read it as well for the self-introspection that is truly admirable. On the eve of the Israel Iranian attack all this is very somber.
** "Israel loves to throw false accusations of antisemitism at its critics." Indeed isn't there a telling viral-vide-in-certain-circles video of Shulamit Aloni saying the same thing?
Here are two more former Israeli Jews who are disgusted by with the Zionist state, left the ethnostate, and now advocate and protest against the Israeli war machine.
Thank you. So good to see. I knew of Ronnie but never heard of Stav before. Some of what she says are words and phrases that I used almost exactly over the years.
“Supporting the Palestinian people is the right thing, indeed the only thing a decent human being can, and must do in the circumstances.”
Indeed!
I remember a song from back in the day, never more appropriate than now, “Which side are you on?” Unfortunately, many of the people I sang that with were on the right side of the Vietnam war, and in the wrong side of this issue. I had demonstrators say things to me about “Arabs” that sounded as racist as what the warmonger’s were saying about the Vietnamese.
I believe there are fewer people now who claim to be for peace, but still make an exception for Palestine. We can hope.
Thank you for your heartfelt remarks.
That is so, you are spot on, that behind "support for Israel" is plain unhinged racism. Zionism is celebrated racism. Racism that won after the WWII. People weee duped because they thought, Jews cannot be racist and fascist.
Avigail once said such people are sometimes referred to as PEPs
'Progressives Except for Palestine'
Yes, PEP (progressive except on Palestine is a huge problem) and a very important thing to understand. It goes right to the heart of what Israel is and how it brainwashes people.
If people are truly empathetic and compassion then it is unconditional. PEPs are selective. They would support anyone except Palestinians. Their loyalty to the tribe and fear of antisemitism take priority above all else including their human values.
Israel has been very successful in its brainwashing efforts. It taught us that it is good, even desirable to be kind and helpful to others, *provided it does not clash with the interests of the state of Israel*. If the state is threatened all values, principles, activism has to take a back seat. Settler-colonial societies are driven by paranoia and fear so they always feel under threat. They are never psychologically secure and the fear and paranoia are forever close to the surface. It was because of that mindset that I left Israel when I did. I was still very ignorant about the real history of the country I was born in, and all I knew about the history of Zionism was from the indoctrination I received in Israel.
You are very welcome. Thank you for reading!
It would have been nice if the public stopped differentiating between "Israel" and the larger Anglo-American Empire. The truth is that there is a 4-Headed International mafia (Finance, Technology, Politics and Academia) working together as ONE. Yes, "Israel" is doing (for now) the physical killing but it has always been just the 'mad dog' of a cold and calculated imperial business. I suspect the Turkish interviewer was not entirely happy to go there, as he avoided your remarks on the total support from western powers (as they usually avoid it). "Israel" is not a standalone lunatic regime but ONE industrial int'l mafia. I don't think “America is backing Israel” - "America" IS "Israel". The fact they have two different names is not important, it is the same criminal group. Saying this is in no way trying to diminish the crimes done by "Israel" or to remove responsibility from "Israel". Somehow, I don't see the "West" ever denouncing Israel for what it really is, and the reason is that it can't denounce itself... As Harold Pinter was saying: "The crimes of the west never happened. Even while they were happening the didn't happen"... Starmer, Biden, Blair (and all the rest) hands are as red as the criminals from "Israel". They should ALL be sitting in the Hague because they are running the same operation/project together. Aren't they?
I agree with you completely!! The world is ruled by exactly the same principles used by traditional mafia and Israel is indeed the ‘mad dog’. See my response to Lena on this thread. We are all in serious trouble.
Yes, I see. It is so obvious. And so ridiculous... Starmer/ Biden are "working hard to ask Israel for a ceasefire”…
I sometimes hear "thought for the day" (BBC R4) and there is often a 'holy' person appearing in a sombre demeanour and wishing peace for all people in "troubled" areas of the globe, but they always forget about the origin for these "troubles" which is much closer to home. One thing you have to hand it to our imperialists - they have a way with words. Here is a link you can see their names - I don't recommend listening though.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00szxv6/episodes/player
Thanks for saying you don’t recommend. I just cannot stomach the BBC at all. It is nauseating, all that misinformation and misleading perspectives, glaring omissions, and continuing to treat Israel like some legitimate state whose opinion actually matters. Can’t stand it. Thank you for your solidarity.
BBC “News” programmes are unwatchable.
I sometimes listen (mainly in the car) just to know the headlines. I know most Israelis hate the BBC, they simply don't grasp the PR sophistication of promoting by the way of offering some criticism. Anyway is there any other English radio station you can listen to? I doubt it.
Absolutely correct. I have the feeling that the Palestinian people are the “canary in the coal mine”, and if we let ‘The West’ get away with this genocide, all bets are off and we’re well and truly f*cked.
Avigail, thanks for this very important framing of Israel's genocide against Gaza. Domestic abuser is an apt comparison.
Diana, in my field it is very clear how to act in situations where there is abuse and imbalance of power. For some reason all our rules and logic go out the window when it comes to international relations. It is nuts.
Avigail, it is nuts, and it is colonialism, patriarchy and imperialism.
I'm so grateful for your clarity and your advocacy Avigail.
Thank you for such lovely feedback!
I am grateful for your solidarity and the fact that you are on the right side of history.
Abigail, thank you for putting yourself through that TRT interview. In Japan we would say お疲れさまです to acknowledge your effort and the time and energy you put into it. An expression of empathy, if you will. I agree with everything you said, and I think it is a damning indictment of our societies that there is almost zero chance that you would be allowed to answer such questions uninterrupted on mainstream media in western countries.
In my home country of New Zealand, the vile right wing government is almost as bad as the vile Labor (!) government you have in Australia, with consent for their criminal actions supporting Israel manufactured 24/7 by the genocide-complicit media. The political and media classes are merely tools of the oligarchs who wield the actual power. In Japan where I live, it’s pretty much the same story. Utterly dispiriting since maybe more than two-thirds of the population are completely conned into believing the false and evil narrative. Even the ones who know they’re being lied to, most of them just tune out and carry on because they have been programmed to believe that they are completely powerless in the face of these massive crimes. I suppose that the only thing we can do is spread the word and participate in BDS. And support real journalists who tell the truth.
Thank you so much and I agree with your observations and analysis. I am so sad about NZ, but then again I am said about humanity in general. We are on a slipper slope, and if climate change doesn’t catch up with us, we will finish ourselves off.
I am no longer in Australia. I have now lived in Scotland for nearly 15 years, but I am an Australian citizen. It indeed vile what is going on there, with the Albanese’s Government support for Israel. Of course, we have the same problem with Keir Starmer here too. Right or Left in politics have lost their meaning. The way I think about it, humanity is largely still fear-driven and has not come out of the stone age yet. It is split between two camps. One includes those who want to live and grow to our human potential, and who recognise the that all human beings are interconnected and dependent on our natural environment. The second includes those who feel fear all the time, and believe in the entitlement of some over others, and in ‘survival of the meanest/greediest/most ruthless, never mind anyone else.
As Edward O. Wilson — the last evolutionary biologist — said: “Modern humanity is distinguished by Palaeolithic emotions, Medieval institutions … and god-like technology. We’re a mixed up, and in many ways archaic species in transition. We are a chimera of evolution.” (https://bigthink.com/hard-science/eo-wilson-what-makes-us-human-paleolithic-emotions-medieval-institutions-god-like-technology/) We are a right mess, and the societies we have created, the fact that we use our ingenuity and technology to kill and destroy tells us everything we need to know about ourselves. Millions of species lived and disappeared. Maybe we will become such a species. It is a pity, because we have the potential to transcend the mess we are and develop into something amazing. But we are still driven by primal instincts, are still giving power to all the wrong people, and cannot seem to break old hard-wired patterns. Thank you Stephen, and for the lovely phrase in Japanese, which sadly I cannot read. Nice to hear from someone in Japan and thank you for reading my writings. 🙏
Thank you for your reply. What I wrote in Japanese can be transliterated as “otsukaresama desu”. But you can also play around with it by copying and pasting the Japanese text into a translation tool of your choice.
I had a look and it means an expression of appreciation for someone’s effort. Seems similar to saying ‘good job’ to someone who did something you appreciate. I can see that it can be used in business/work context. Thank you. That is very kind.
Thank you. I will. What are you doing in Japan? As in, what do you do for work?
I am a Japanese-to-English translator by trade, with a very modest sideline in accommodation. I live in a farming and tourism area in the mountains, about two hours from Tokyo.
Thank you, Avigail, the Zionist denial that it is settler-colonialism, is incredibly dishonest. Zionists have been defining Zionism as "Jewish colonial project in Palestine" since day one and they have always called Jewish settlements "colonies" and "settlements", and the settlers "settlers". In Israel, there are countless streets called in Hebrew "colonial" and the like. Weizmann, Ben Gurion and Jabotinsky have been propagandizing the British and Mussolini to support "Jewish colonization". Before Nuremberg Trials, none of the Zionist leaders has ever objected to define Zionism as settler-colonial. They were proud to wage colonialism in the same style and even better than non-Jews.
Yet today they deny it. Even Finkelstein says that we should not call Zionism "colonialism".
Zionism was based on lies about Jews, about Palestine, about history, about Bible and Torah.
Zionists simply wanted a piece of land for themselves, to do whatever they want on it and be able to expand this piece of land indefinitely. Nothing to do with Jews' well-being, or the Bible, or history - just greed for domination, plain and simple.
Theodor Herzl: “ Our first object is, as I said before, supremacy, assured to us by international law, over a portion of the globe sufficiently large to satisfy our just requirements.” - The Jewish State
The international law, in times of his writing The Jewish State, was the law of conquest of "lesser peoples" and race science.
I’m not actually sure they’re really denying anymore. They just think that settler-colonialism and colonialism are perfectly OK. Israel and its soceity are so consumed with their sense of entitlement, that it is completely normal to them. They cannot see beyond it. If you have a sense of entittlement, then empathy to others is a luxury you cannot afford. Israel exists in a world where imperialism is still the norm, and within a global economic system based on the ‘survival of the meanest’. Israel thinks the world has nothing to complain against it, and if it does it calls the world’s bluff. Behind closed doors I am sure Israel’s leaders and reps are telling their American and UK friends that Israel is just carryign out in the open the same thing they did elsewhere in the world (e.g. Iraq), and also in stealth through economic manipulation. Israelis know perfectly well what they are doing. They just don’t believe it is fundamentally wrong. In a ‘dog eat dog’ world they just believe they are doing what they need to do to ‘survive’ and advance their own interests. It is a lot more cynical than people imagine.
Yes, they say that it is antisemitic to call it colonialism because this term makes them outsider newcomers, whereas they are "native to this land" and Palestinians are "just Arabs to annexed this territory".
Yes, the denial of the colonialist nature of Zionism became essential after the WWII. Zionists say that it is not colonialism but Jewish national home since 2000 years ago.
I’ve heard Professor Finkelstein say that the term “settler colonialism” is not helpful, but I don’t know what’s his thinking behind that ?
Chomsky... And by the way who cares "helpful" or not, if that's what it is? Is it "helpful" to call imperialism "imperialism"? Or to call Zionism "Zionism"?
Chomsky has always been a problem for me. I have no issues with his scholarship and his ideas about how regimes and media can generate conformity to certain views. But he has always been against the BDS, which always made me suspect that deep underneath he has been harbouring tribal loyalties. He is more like a ‘liberal Zionist’ than the real deal. And you are right. Settler-colonialism is what it is and it must be named as such. I don’t have much trust in Chomsky.
Dear Avigail, Chomsky's ideas about media, propaganda and generating conformity are 100% plagiarism from Parenti. Sadly. Chomsl\ky has always been a totalitarian. See his debate with Foucault 1971.
I’m not suggesting at all that it’s not settler colonialism. I don’t doubt Professor Finkelstein’s 40 year commitment to the Palestinian cause and his visceral hatred of Israel, so I was curious as to why he objected to the phrase.
1) I was not addressing you, but this liberal Zionist position about "helpful". Who cares if it helpful. It is beside the point what Finkelstein says there. 2) I think there is a lot of confusion regarding liberal Zionism and Palestine. Opposition to Israel does not mean opposition to Zionism. Not at all. We must distinguish between opposition to Israel and anti-Zionism (as in anti-fascism). Liberal Zionists such as Chomsky and his disciples believe in the benign and beneficial nature of Zionism as an ideology. They however criticize Israel for giving Zionism a bad name. That's all what it is. The reason why Finkelstein abhors the use of the term "settler-colonialism" is because this term exposes Zionism as a predatory, colonial ideology. This is what he disagrees with.
With all due respect, you haven’t read or listened to Finkelstein if you think he’s not completely opposed to Israel and the whole Zionist “project”.
"Finkelstein declared his opposition to BDS—and did so in the same inflammatory language he had been using for decades to describe Israel and its supporters. “I loathe the disingenuousness—they don’t want Israel [to exist],” he said. “It’s a cult.” He had spent his time in a self-deceptive Maoist cult, he said; he wouldn’t do it again. He accused BDS activists of “inflating the numbers” of Palestinian refugees and “want[ing] to create terror in the hearts of every Israeli” rather than resolve the conflict. “I’m not going to tolerate what I think is silliness, childishness, and a lot of left-wing posturing,” he said." -- https://newrepublic.com/article/122257/unpopular-man-norman-finkelstein-comes-out-against-bds-movement
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Last year, speaking at a rally at Columbia, he again tried to school the protesters to refrain from calls to dismantle Israel and establish Palestine instead.
I have to remind you, Paul, that an ideological position is defined not by what one is AGAINST, but by what one is FOR. It is not enough to criticize Israel and be against it, as Finkelstein does. It is necessary to envision its disappearance. Completely. Gone from the face of the Earth. Which Finkelstein does NOT. You asked why Finkelstein opposes calling Zionism "settler-colonialism in Palestine". I answered you why.
I bigly appreciate the fact that you didn't fall for the bait/opening offered by the interviewer (In good faith, i believe) early on, who wanted you to comment on the situation "as a Jew". You rightly and morally deflected that to persistently say "as a human being....".
I find it perplexing that so many others of jewish heritage tend to preface their condemnation with "as a jew". Knowing what I know now - after 11 months of deeply troubling Talmudic study and what it says of non-jews, I just cannot fathom how that kind of preambling to a comment adds strength to one's position.
Thanks for your comment and for noticing… You are the first person to comment on this. I think people preface what they say with ‘as a Jew’, because they think it might strengthen their position. When I said there is nothing ‘Jewish’ in me, I meant it. I was brought up in a secular family in the Zionist cult of Israel that calls itself Jewish, because it declared a few festivals from Jewish religion as national festivals, and it allows Jewish religious law to administer marriages, divorces, and burials.
I don’t like Jewish religion, and I never have. I took a few classes in Jewish religion at university, because I wanted to understand better what it was about it that I didn’t like. I got my answer. It is a legalistic and bleak, cult-like religion, it has blood phobia and it is profoundly misogynistic. As a woman how could I possibly follow a religion that treats women the way orthodox Judaism does? I do not believe that Jewish religion makes much of a contribution to humanity as a whole, in my opinion anyway.
The important point for me is to make it clear that Israel is a setter-colonial state, and what title it wants to give itself changes nothing. Talking about Jewishness backfires, because it deflects from the real issue, which is that crazy and entitled Zionist goal to remove the non-Jewish indigenous people, and replace them with those Israel defines as Jews. As long as people continue to talk about ethnicity, or religion when they discuss Israel-Palestine, they are helping Israel distract, deflect, and evade.
Israel loves to throw false accusations of antisemitism at its critics. When it does that, it behaves like all perpetrators who pretend to be the victim. There is actually nothing original or special about Israel. Everything Israel is doing has been done before.
I told the truth at the start of the interview, but I also do not think that it should matter if someone is a Jew to criticise Israel, or that they deserve a medal because of this. No group is more special than any other group and no group of humans on the planet is more entitled to live and survive than anyone else.
No group should be persecuted on any grounds whatsoever. Jews were persecuted because of the same petty-minded racism and brutality that has always caused the persecution of anyone who is and was a victim of prejudice and mob mentality.
If you study the Talmud, you are probably seeing how preoccupied Jewish religion is with its own inner workings, how insular it is, and how obsessed it is with its perception of racial purity and not mixing with ‘others’. Before the Talmud was written down, Judaism was a missionary religion that converted others. But when Jewish religion becomes persecuted, you begin to see the insular mindset and the desire to protect the group dominating more and more. (I recommend you read Shlomo Sand’s The Invention of the Jewish People, if you haven’t already). I am sure you see the deep existential fear at the core of the religion, the strong legalistic trend, the idea that following the laws is what brings a man closer to God, and the preoccupation with interpreting God’s intentions so people follow the laws ‘correctly’. How or when a religion becomes a race, is an interesting question someone should look into.
None of this, of course, ever justified persecution of Jews, and none of this justifies Israel’s genocidal settler-colonialism, and sense of entitlement. I believe our messed up human psychology predates our religions. Religion reflects both sides of our nature, our potential to be grounded, compassionate, and inclusive, and our fear-based, tribal, survivalist savagery. Every religion includes both elements. People’s psychology would determine how they would interpret their religion, and what they are prepared to do in its name. Some people are propelled by their religion to inclusivity and human values, and some focus on tribalism and exclusivity.
Israel has little to do with anything other than an incredibly primitive, deadly, and ultimately self-defeating psychology. And sadly, Israel is a microcosm of the world we live in. It would have been so easy to stop Israel’s murderous insanity, but those with the power collude with it. They demonstrate that the power in the world is in the hands of people who have the exact same psychology that drives Israel, and represent the most primitive sides of humanity. It is really sad given the potential we also have. Thanks again for commenting.
Abigail, a very thoughtful follow-up. I hope others read it as well for the self-introspection that is truly admirable. On the eve of the Israel Iranian attack all this is very somber.
** "Israel loves to throw false accusations of antisemitism at its critics." Indeed isn't there a telling viral-vide-in-certain-circles video of Shulamit Aloni saying the same thing?
^Aside: I have perused Shlomo Sand's' How i stopped being a Jew - and indeed commented on that on a prior post elsewhere here on substack. Also he went public about this: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/10/shlomo-sand-i-wish-to-cease-considering-myself-a-jew#:~:text=Now%2C%20having%20painfully%20become%20aware,cease%20considering%20myself%20a%20Jew
Here are two more former Israeli Jews who are disgusted by with the Zionist state, left the ethnostate, and now advocate and protest against the Israeli war machine.
https://realmedia.press/israeli-dissidents-direct-action/
Thank you. So good to see. I knew of Ronnie but never heard of Stav before. Some of what she says are words and phrases that I used almost exactly over the years.
No beating about the bush. Great message Avigail. Brave.
Thanks Samer. Your opinion means a lot to me. We have to be blunt because the events are blunt… See you this evening a the Book Club meeting.
Thanks for this, Abigail. Also, thanks for your book club interview with Professor Khalidi, it was excellent👍
Thanks Paul! I appreciate the feedback on the Book Club. It means a lot to me, and I am keen to do a good job. 🙏🏼
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such inspiring moral clarity - thank you
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Thank you! It’s very kind of you to say.